160510 | FB | CRANFORDS are back yet again with another, amended, planning application for the field opposite Hayle Rugby Club o
Submitted by via facebook Ha... on Tue, 31/05/2016 - 16:00.
Via Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/1427665177484300/permalink/1707801159470...
CRANFORDS are back yet again with another, amended, planning application for the field opposite Hayle Rugby Club on the Cornwall Wildlife site at Marsh Lane Hayle.
http://planning.cornwall.gov.uk/onli…/applicationDetails.do…
Charlie Jenkin Who sold the land to Cranford's in the 1st place.
Nicholas David St John-Savage The rugby club. They sold all the land. They sold area of the Marsh Lane Industrial Estate, West Cornwall Shopping Park and Candfords. Hell they even want to sell their own ground! The land was left to them by a farmer as a "memorial" to his son and friends etc killed in the war. Very sad..
John Durham I think I know!
Laura James Will probably be shot for saying this, but I hope it happens. ????
Julian Phillips Only looked at this briefly however how much has really changed? The covering letter states that floorspace has been reduced by 43% to 8404 sq meters however the floorspace in previous applications was never for 14834 sq meters (unless I have missed so...See more
Nicholas David St John-Savage Simply Dreadful.
The Rugby Club have absolutely trashed the gateway to Hayle. ...See more
The Rugby Club have absolutely trashed the gateway to Hayle. ...See more
Patrick Kirkham I think he would be pleased with the plans for there new site with the extra things for the people of Hayle
Gail Willis I thought you couldn't stipulate who occupied units when considering a planning application. Is 'bulky white goods' a different category to 'fashion'?
Graham Coad Retail use is class A1 which includes fashion based and bulky white goods, but it is possible that a condition that it is for only "Bulky white goods" could be introduced as a binding planning condition or s106 agreement.
Gail Willis possible... like Penpol Bridge?
Ben Allan What has happened to the rugby club development/ re location ?? All seems to have gone very quiet
Stephen Cornish The bit in application which says the address is "Marsh Lane Nature Reserve " should say it all to any locals or Cornish but I expect that the prospect of being able to do more shopping will be too much for some to do without.
Gail Willis If a world Heritage Site needs protecting from damage, why doesn't a Nature Reserve?
Graham Coad The Government's "National Planning Policy Framework" has made protection of World Heritage Sites of the highest importance, but County Wildlife Sites do not enjoy the same status.
Gail Willis Do they have any protection?
Graham Coad Probably not nearly enough!
Stephen Cornish You'd hope that the locals would try to help protect them by objecting.
Gail Willis and the councils wink emoticon
Graham Coad Trouble is that a lot of the public just want the 'lovely shops' and don't care about the actual site and that also goes for some councillors who support that view.
Democracy...good when it works with what you want, not so good when you're in the minority!
Democracy...good when it works with what you want, not so good when you're in the minority!
Trevor Maxfield Hence why they were given permission to develop Riviere farm. Remember this all you Councillors.
Stephen Cornish Wildlife doesn't get a say either.
William B Barber If Cranford get the go ahead hopefully they will be a lot quicker getting on with it than the lot who are supposed to be developing the Rugby Club site.
Ken Townend Don't think they will ever get their act together at the Rugby Club.
Ben Allan Then why don't they just sell the option and approval?
Graham Coad Walker Developments who have the RFC option built Penryn ASDA and are currently doing the big development at Threemilestone this side of Truro.
Beryl Bez Smith Curran Guess that's their priority then
Graham Coad "Walker Developments who have the RFC option built Penryn ASDA and are currently doing the big development at Threemilestone this side of Truro."
I imagine so Beryl, hopefully Hayle is next on the list.
Designing and building a retail park, attracting and signing up major stores takes longer than some people think!
I imagine so Beryl, hopefully Hayle is next on the list.
Designing and building a retail park, attracting and signing up major stores takes longer than some people think!
William B Barber So why not look for some major store interest before application, as Cranford did?
Graham Coad Simple,,Cranford had the best stores already contracted.
Once Cranford was refused, stores can jump ship but it doesn't happen overnight.
Once Cranford was refused, stores can jump ship but it doesn't happen overnight.
William B Barber Pity the decision wasn't for Cranford then. I suppose it wasn't beneficial enough.
Graham Coad The Cranford site had planning failings, RFC ground had fewer issues.
Lots of people don't realise that it's the SITE that's important in planning, not the developer or brand of store.
Cranfords site is on a floodplain, in a Cornwall Nature site and rare marshland etc.
Lots of people don't realise that it's the SITE that's important in planning, not the developer or brand of store.
Cranfords site is on a floodplain, in a Cornwall Nature site and rare marshland etc.
William B Barber As I said not beneficial enough. Probably end up as 2 birds that were in the bush and ending up with none in the hand.
Laura James I heard that cranfords have been restricted to furniture and white goods stores only. Is this true?
William B Barber Graham Coad states in his reply above that it is the site not the types of store that's a problem so sounds like nothing can be built there at all. We shall see if it is the site issue one day.
Graham Coad The LAST time Cranfords was refused was when the Rugby Club plans had already been approved through being a better SITE than Cranfords, but on that occasion Cranfords had done so much work changing their plans and offering to pay for flooding and wildlife improvements elsewhere that the environmental objections were less strident.
THEN they were refused as the combined effect of their stores on top of what was already there plus the permitted rugby club development would create a shopping centre so big that it would damage trade in Hayle, Penzance, Camborne/Redruth and Truro -even Falmouth!
Now because of that, Cranfords are back with a plan for white goods and furniture type stores only, that might not create damaging competition for other towns.
They came up with this themselves, it was not imposed on them.
THEN they were refused as the combined effect of their stores on top of what was already there plus the permitted rugby club development would create a shopping centre so big that it would damage trade in Hayle, Penzance, Camborne/Redruth and Truro -even Falmouth!
Now because of that, Cranfords are back with a plan for white goods and furniture type stores only, that might not create damaging competition for other towns.
They came up with this themselves, it was not imposed on them.
William B Barber Therefore the site was OK all along. Just delayed to favour Walker as they are already doing CC work. Thanks for the clarification.
Graham Coad Total rubbish William. I was present at every council planning meeting when it was discussed, all entirely open to the public and above board.
(Cranfords have spent a fortune TRYING to make a nature reserve in a marsh SEEM a good site for building, but failed so far).
(Cranfords have spent a fortune TRYING to make a nature reserve in a marsh SEEM a good site for building, but failed so far).
William B Barber I guess you should know how CC make their decisions then.
Graham Coad WilliamYou are right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, (no matter how foolish or incorrect it might be,) but you weren't at the Cornwall Council meetings where all these applications were debated and decided.
I and other Hayle Town Councillors were PLUS Hayle members of the public with no connections to the council and we were all able to follow the arguments and debates to see how the decisions were arrived at, in openness, transparency and in public.
All the meetings were also broadcast as webcasts so people could view at home online. (They may even still be available in archive).
The 'opinion' you voiced above is quite simply uninformed and incorrect.
I and other Hayle Town Councillors were PLUS Hayle members of the public with no connections to the council and we were all able to follow the arguments and debates to see how the decisions were arrived at, in openness, transparency and in public.
All the meetings were also broadcast as webcasts so people could view at home online. (They may even still be available in archive).
The 'opinion' you voiced above is quite simply uninformed and incorrect.
Beryl Bez Smith Curran So if they get the planning through and can only sell white goods and furniture does that stand for the rugby club site too? Or, as they are the preferred ones will they be able to sell anything? Won't they have the same impact on the shops in Penzance,Camborne, Truro, etc. Or is there a difference?
Gail Willis let's hope they continue to fail. I do find it frustrating that everyone seems to agree the site is not suitable, for many reasons, but the reasons given for refusal change and they come back with another application. If it wasn't suitable all those years ago why would it be now?
William B Barber Graham Coad Don't get personal, it spoils your point, even if you could be incorrect.
Graham Coad No Beryl, the successful Rugby Club outline planning application was for full "A1" Retail clothing/fashion based restaurants etc.
When Cranfords tried again for the same they were refused as the TOTAL cumulative effect would be bad for other town centres.
Cranfords have now come back with a plan for white goods/furniture type shops which they say will not have anything like such a negative cumulative effect on neighbouring town centres.
This latest application has not yet been considered.
When Cranfords tried again for the same they were refused as the TOTAL cumulative effect would be bad for other town centres.
Cranfords have now come back with a plan for white goods/furniture type shops which they say will not have anything like such a negative cumulative effect on neighbouring town centres.
This latest application has not yet been considered.
Gail Willis Graham The application says A1. Can the type of shops be restricted to bulky white goods or can any A1 class stores locate there if planning is approved?
Laura James I don't see how Cranfords original plans would have effected Camborne PZ or Hayle as they have none of the shops cranfords offered.
Beryl Bez Smith Curran Mind you if we leave in June according to the government we won't need any shops cos no ones gonna have any money to spend, they'll be no one to trade our goods with, no one will sell to us, our houses will be worthless, We are all gonna be desolate paupers, so I wouldn't worry about planning .
Graham Coad Gail Well spotted, although Cranfords state they will only site white goods and furniture type stores, it is all "A1 Retail" They could be constrained by a planning condition or s106 condition, but they are not always set in stone and can be overturned if all parties to the agreements agree in the future.
Laura James,once the RFC plans had been passed "That was enough retail".
The additional stores planned by Cranford would have had an extra, cumulative effect that would thraten other town centres viability.
Beryl...cheerful soul!
Laura James,once the RFC plans had been passed "That was enough retail".
The additional stores planned by Cranford would have had an extra, cumulative effect that would thraten other town centres viability.
Beryl...cheerful soul!
William B Barber But Walker show no sign of moving forward. That is the issue here Graham.
Graham Coad No signs that you and I can SEE William. Walkers need to get the firms signed up and decisions made about what size stores they want before any detailed plans can be submitted, and until that time comes all is subject to commercial confidentiality.
Beryl Bez Smith Curran Just like the site opposite Asda. Planning went in for one big store it was declined, but it was all hush hush as to who was interested, planning went in again this time agreed it could be one big store. Where are these people that wanted that site? If their still interested I wish they'd hurry up and get on with it.
Graham Coad Beryl, that site and the remainder of South Quay is "alleged" to be up for sale by the owners to an interested party so no movement until sale is complete or cancelled.
By law, any planning permission granted expires after a certain period. Generally, unless your permission says otherwise, you have three years from the date it's granted to begin the development. If you haven't started work by then, you will probably need to reapply.
By law, any planning permission granted expires after a certain period. Generally, unless your permission says otherwise, you have three years from the date it's granted to begin the development. If you haven't started work by then, you will probably need to reapply.
Ken Townend Alledgedly, All you got to do is start the foundations and your in for good.
Beryl Bez Smith Curran Thought it was 5 years
Charlie Jenkin And looks like Truro are getting a large retail park, bet that gets passed.
Paul Rogers Graham can you advise how Hayle Council on one hand are favouring this site for development and on the other hand in the Neighbourhood Plan proposing it is excluded/protected from development as a wildlife site?
Gail Willis may be worth asking that question at the planning meeting on June 16th
Graham Coad Paul Rogers, Hayle Town Council is made up of 15 elected local councillors with their own individual ideas and views on planning.
(Because they supported the LAST Cranford application does not necessarily mean they will support this one.)
Hayle Neighbourhood Plan is separate from the council, although there are some councillors on the Steering Group there are also members of the public, and the NP results from the general public's contributions to surveys and consultations so far.
Perhaps the councillors who supported the Cranford Application in the past might need to be reminded to look at the "Emerging Neighbourhood Plan"?
All councillors contact details are on the Hayle Town Council website, and our meetings are open to the public.
(Because they supported the LAST Cranford application does not necessarily mean they will support this one.)
Hayle Neighbourhood Plan is separate from the council, although there are some councillors on the Steering Group there are also members of the public, and the NP results from the general public's contributions to surveys and consultations so far.
Perhaps the councillors who supported the Cranford Application in the past might need to be reminded to look at the "Emerging Neighbourhood Plan"?
All councillors contact details are on the Hayle Town Council website, and our meetings are open to the public.
Gail Willis Graham, I accept that councillors are individuals with their own opinions and ideas but surely they need to take into account guidelines, national planning framework and their own heighbourhood plan?
Paul Rogers So if a councillor supports this application we can assume they don't support the emerging neighbourhood plan?
Gail Willis Seems little point having a neighbourhood plan that the councillors ignore or need to be reminded about
Paul Rogers I think some serious questions need to be asked about this, the Neighbourhood Plan is supposed to be about providing guidelines about what is best for Hayle- not the developers pockets, we need to see if the chairman of the plan - John Bennett supports the application like he did last time or his own plan!
Ken Townend The pitches at the new Rugby ground, will take at least 2-3 years to get stabilised enough for matches, unless artificial. Have they already started the process?
Graham Coad Gail, councillors are ordinary people elected to the role. knowledge and experience of planning varies, and we often get lobbied by supporters and opposers of a plan, councillors are expected to bring local knowledge to bear in their decisions which way to vote.
Paul, the Neighbourhood Plan is not "John Bennett's plan", but generated by the people of Hayle who cooperated with the surveys and consultations so far.
He may not personally agree with everything in the plan, but when the plan is finally passed it will be binding whether any individual Steering Group member likes it or not.
Paul, the Neighbourhood Plan is not "John Bennett's plan", but generated by the people of Hayle who cooperated with the surveys and consultations so far.
He may not personally agree with everything in the plan, but when the plan is finally passed it will be binding whether any individual Steering Group member likes it or not.
Trevor Maxfield Can I ask are the steering group elected representatives of the people of Hayle.
Graham Coad No, they are the only people who came forward when it was being advertised as open to everyone.
Graham Coad You know, volunteers, good citizens dedicated to Hayle......
Trevor Maxfield I honestly didn't see it advertised.
Graham Coad The process and Steering group started in 2014, and has been in the Cornishman, the Hayle Pump, and regularly linked to on the Hayle Facebook pages, plus it has its own Facebook Page and website, and the steering group has always been open, plus the meetings are open to all as notified on the website. All the documents, research and surveys are on the website for al to examine...
http://np.hayle.net/
http://np.hayle.net/
np.hayle.net
Trevor Maxfield Graham Of course I have seen all this.Surely the people purporting to represent the people of Hayle underwent some form of democratic process, after all they are formulating a plan that will affect us all.
Graham Coad We took the few councillors and volunteers that came forward Trevor, people came and went during the process, but it involved hard work, study and regularly giving up time.....what you and others fail to grasp is that the Steering Group doesn't decide what is in the HNP, it is what we received back from the public in the first survey, checked and confirmed by the later surveys and consultations, and after being vetted by an Inspector it goes to referendum that only Hayle People registered to vote can take part in.
You can't get much more democratic than that!
You can't get much more democratic than that!
Graham Coad Ken from memory, the proposed new RFC ground will have state of the art all weather artificial pitches, as you would expect.
Gail Willis Graham, I respect and am grateful that people give up their time to be councillors and feel you all do a good job. But with that role comes responsibility to be aware of planning policy and, guidelines etc. If I can help by reminding them of this, then so be it smile emoticon
Ken Townend Artificial pitches sound good. Used for years in the States. American football does not have scrums or line-outs or a culture of rubbing an opponent's face in the mud. Rubbing someone's face in the composite rubber crumb may or may not offend Health and Safety.
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